SAC Meeting Minutes - March 07, 2025

Present:

Regret:

Virtual:

Matthew MacLeod - RE - NCR - Chair
Foster Scott - CFIA-VM - ONT - Member
Robert Lambert - SP - ATL - Member
Terri D’Souza - CFIA-S&A - B.C. - Yukon - Member
M. Rokib Hassan - NCR-RO/RCO - NCR - Member
Ira Hill - SP - Prairies, NWT - Member
Timothy McKay - CP - Board Liaison
Lionel Siniyunguruza - PIPSC - Staff Resource
Marielle Nadon - PIPSC - Staff Resource

Caroline Levasseur - SP - QC - Member

Guests:

Sadichchha Pokharel - PIPSC - Research Officer

Michael Urminsky - PIPSC - Senior Advisor, Strategic Bargaining 

1. Call to Order & Introductions

Members of the 2025 SAC introduce themselves and provide an overview of their professional backgrounds. There are no Friends of the Committee decided yet. The meeting is called to order.

2. SAC Owners Manual

Matthew explains the contents of the SAC Owners Manual. The Committee has been approved for a 2 year-term instead of one. Marielle mentioned it would be preferable to have multiple meeting dates planned ahead. 

3. Meeting Minutes from previous 2024 meetings

Review of the August and September 2024, SAC Meeting Minutes. Review of the actions items, clarifications are provided, and the minutes are amended as necessary. The minutes are otherwise approved by all, moved by Matthew and seconded by Rokib.

Comments on Action Items:

• The plan on reviving Women in Science Learning Lab is still in discussion according to Lionel. Matthew would like to look into this more this year.
• The Science Integrity Training previously delivered to stewards is being delivered to staff. It was for February 28th, 2025, but was rescheduled due to a conflict with another event. Now scheduled for March 21st.

4. Science/research membership survey results

Matthew and Lionel discuss the September 2024 SAC Meeting Minutes as they contain results of the science/research membership survey that we should not publish in the meeting minutes until the public release of this information. 

4.1 Survey of the Federal Scientists 2024 - Presentation by Lionel

• Purpose: Understand the work and challenges faced by federal scientists 
• The 2024 survey is compared with the 2021 one.
• Resource concerns: Public Health Agency of Canada had the highest ‘Strongly Disagree’ responses.
• Many departments express concerns over insufficient funding  and personnel for research & development. 
• Many have seen reductions in science capacity in 2024 - more than in 2021
• Many reported funding decreases and reported ‘very detrimental’ these funding cuts.
• The Canadian Food Inspection Agency and Fisheries and Oceans Canada had the highest disagreement regarding resource shortages.
• Support for conferences/training dropped from 2021 to 2024. They mostly agree there are barriers. 
• Disagreement about speaking freely without constraints increased.

** Lionel presented specific results which will later be published to the full membership.

Key observations : 

• Frustration with lack of career of opportunities, especially for early-career scientists, salary inequities,  and promotion barriers leading to low morale.
• Underfunding of core scientific programs and rising administrative burdens hinder scientific work.
• Systemic issues in procurement and resource allocation further contribute to these challenges. 
• Criticism of administrative inefficiencies and top-down decision-making that ignores scientific expertise.
• Policies like travel restriction and limited conference attendance disrupt professional growth and internal collaboration.
• Disconnect between management priorities and the actual needs of scientific programs, with an excessive  focus on bureaucracy over innovation. 
• Growing concerns about political interference dictating research priorities, leading to biased or restricted studies.
• Erosion to trust between scientific and management, fueled by micromanagement, lack of consultation, and insufficient recognition of contribution.
• Resulting in decreased morale, increased stress, and considerations of early retirement or leaving the public service.

Matthew proceeded to a round table about Lionel’s presentation. Ira, as a project manager, confirms there is an issue regarding travel. Matthew seconds that many people can’t attend meetings because of funding regarding travel even if they would be a great asset to the meeting. Robert mentions that management are unsure how to be innovative and realize their projects while their budgets are cut in half (or more).

5. Scientific Integrity (SI) and governance Committee

5.1 Governance committee and Scientific Integrity Policy (SIP) “2.0.”

For the benefit of new members, Matt explained the background. Last year’s (2024) scientific integrity governance committee (President of PIPSC, Chief Science Advisor, and Secretary of the Treasury Board Secretariat (TBS)) was rescheduled multiple times. PIPSC had understood at the 2023 meeting we had agreed to an addendum to the model Scientific Integrity Policy (mSIP) Indigenous Knowledge, but not to a full “2.0”). The Office of the Chief Science Advisor (OCSA) had however pushed ahead with a revised model, while also delaying distributing the 2023 minutes.

The governance committee met in November 2024, but TBS also signalled their intent to cease their participation, despite the committee being part of our collective agreements.

Matt and Lionel have met with OCSA to raise PIPSC’s concerns with their proposed model. In addition to Indigenous Knowledge, there are additions with respect to Research Security, generative Artificial Intelligence, and a few other issues.

5.2 Scientific Integrity Steward Training

Matthew shared that it would be beneficial for members in general to receive this training but the full day training has so far been restricted to stewards. Lunch & learn for every member could be an interesting idea to be developed. Terri supports the idea.

1. Are members interested in this topic?
2. Can the Committee handle these Lunch & Learn and the funding required?

6. Discussion on current/upcoming threats to federal science, 

6.1 US status and knock-on effects on collaboration

Matthew shared that colleagues at DFO said that they lost contact with sensor data NOAA in the U.S. 

Rob expressed that they are exchanging weather, radar and satellite data with WMO and they are wondering if they will cut them these resources. Canada doesn’t own any weather satellites and that may create problems.

6.2 Cuts to Canadian Public Service

Terri said that CFIA received an email that 150 terms were being cut before their contract ended.

Michael states that the Public Affairs team is currently working on collecting stories from members about cuts. 

Matthew suggests inviting someone from the Public Affairs Team at the next meeting.

7. Working together and Committee’s goals

1. Put some request to get resource in updating the fact sheet
2. Possibly working on the aging structure problems
3. Working on the Model 2.0. with the Board Liaison (Tim)
4. Working with others related Committees
5. Reinvigorate our connection with Evidence for Democracy
6. Propose a panel at the annual Canadian Science Policy Conference

8. Update on Women in Science ( guest- Sadichchha Pokharel)

Their most recent project was the Women in Science fieldwork guide who was based on recommendations from a women's professional group based in the DFO. They identified that it was a problem and requested from PIPSC an educational resource. They had lots of support for the guide, including an opinion piece from the President of PIPSC published in the Ottawa Citizen and other regional newspapers.

One of the popular initiatives is the Women in Science Café series which invite a woman or non-binary person each couple of months to talk about different work that’s being done by scientists.

Regarding the learning labs, a recurrent problem is that members have really ambitious ideas but don’t have the capacity or time to put in the work. Getting members interested to be a part of this on a more sustainable basis would be our goal. Sadi express having a working group would be ideal. 

There are a lot of avenues for innovation and new initiatives that can be done under the Women in Science banner. 

9. Return to Office

Returning to the office 3 days per week is causing frustration for many public servants and isn’t environmentally friendly. The way the 3 days per week is handled creates multiple disagreements from travelling to worker’s morale. Most people aren’t in favor of sharing desks - some use specific screens or ergonomic equipment. There are health and safety issues regarding storing laboratory equipment, firearms and confidential documents in an environment shared by multiple people. Some also struggle to have a quiet, organized and functional space to work at home but can’t be at the office the remaining two days due to lack of space to accommodate everyone. 

10. Round-table & next meeting dates

Terri: BC/Yukon Regional Council will be in June 2025 where Terri will be asked to present her report on the SAC Committee

Ira: Prairies/NWT also have their Regional Council in June 2025.

Foster: He hasn't received a lot of input from their newly elected director yet.

Rokib: He heard from different branches that they are worried about the new government changes and the impact on their work.

Matthew: They knocked down several federal buildings and there are fewer and fewer places for public servants to work. There is a relatively new sub group at Central Experimental Farm - there is a lot of debate and concerns around new high-rise developments around this site which would create shadows on their fields. 

Robert: The biggest problem is their interactions with the U.S. that may be impacted.

May and late June would be ideal for the next two meetings.